Royal Canin Dog Food
Unlike many pet food manufacturers today who try to sell pet food based on the idea that dogs are like people, Royal Canin says they believe pets are not people. They are, instead, unique animals with unique nutritional needs. They produce foods based on science and research. The company says they place their emphasis on the nutrients in the food rather than simply looking at the ingredients. In addition, Royal Canin researches nutritional formulas for specific breeds and health symptoms.
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Who manufactures Royal Canin?
Royal Canin was founded in 1968 in France by a veterinarian who wanted to produce a science-based pet food. After much growth and a series of sales, Royal Canin was purchased by Mars, Incorporated in 2001. Their global headquarters is still in France and the food is sold around the world. In the United States their headquarter is in St. Charles, Missouri. They have manufacturing facilities in Missouri and South Dakota. The company says that all the pet food they distribute and sell in the U.S. is made in company-owned plants located in the U.S. and Canada.
Royal Canin Recalls 2017
Please Read First: If this statement is still here we are actively watching for new recalls. Below you will find a history of recalls. If you would like to know as SOON as we find out about a recalls visit:https://dogfood.guru/dog-food-recalls/ and fill out our Recall Alert form. We will ONLY email this list in the event of an actual recall. Once we stop watching for Recalls I will remove this statement.
We also encourage everyone to bookmark the site for future reference.
Latest Recalls List (From newest to oldest):
- Royal Canin had a recall in 2007 due to melamine in the rice protein concentrate used in some of their dry pet foods (dog and cat foods). This also included some foods sold only through veterinary clinics. We did not find any recalls since that time in the FDA database.
Learn how we Monitor for Recalls: https://dogfood.guru/dog-food-recalls/
Royal Canin Dog Food Coupons 2017
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Royal Canin Reviews
Royal Canin produces dry and wet (canned) foods for specific breeds and specific health problems. Some of these foods are only sold through veterinarians. They also produce dog food for dogs of different sizes: x-small, mini, medium, maxi, and giant. Their breed formulas include Boxer, Chihuahua, Cocker Spaniel, Dachshund, English Bulldog, Golden Retriever and others. They make dozens of different kinds of foods for all ages and conditions of dogs. https://www.royalcanin.us/products/products
From what we can tell in browsing through a number of Royal Canin dog foods online, it looks like each one is unique in terms of ingredients and guaranteed analysis. The foods appear to be designed specifically for dogs of certain ages or breeds, as stated by Royal Canin. The information provided about health conditions agrees with what we know about breeds and their potential health issues. Most of the percentages for the foods (protein and fat, for example), look very generous. Ingredients in the foods look better than average. No, these are not “natural” or “holistic” ingredients that you will find in some dog foods. But Royal Canin has always maintained that they are devoted to scientific principles of nutrition rather than what makes owners feel good. These foods look like they would be good for dogs even if they do not contain ingredients that people want to eat.
Typical ingredients include chicken meal, chicken by-product meal, brown rice, brewers rice, oat groats, corn and/or wheat gluten meal, and chicken fat, as well as dried beet pulp, fish oil, and dried egg product. Royal Canin also appears to use chelated or proteinated minerals which are easier for dogs to digest. Chelated minerals are usually found in better quality dog foods because they are more expensive for manufacturers to buy. Some foods add L-Carnitine and other amino acids which help dogs convert fat to lean muscle. Some of the foods also feature chondroitin sulfate and/or glucosamine which are beneficial for joints. The foods are AAFCO approved for various life stages.
According to Royal Canin, they only use high quality chicken by-products such as hearts, livers, and lungs. The company says they take a number of things into consideration when formulating their foods such as kibble size, shape, and texture; the digestibility of grains; and the quality of by-products.
Royal Canin has a very good reputation, aided by their veterinary formulas which are often the only foods a dog with a health problem can eat. Royal Canin isn’t a trendy brand. They don’t make “natural” dog foods or try to appeal to pet owners who want dogs to eat gourmet foods. But they are respected by owners and vets who prefer foods that emphasize good nutrition based on science.
Royal Canin Consumer Ratings:
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Our Royal Canin German Shepherd 24 Review:
We have randomly selected Royal Canin German Shepherd 24 for our review of a Royal Canin dog food. This food is one of a growing list of breed specific dog foods offered by Royal Canin in adult and puppy formulas. This particular food is designed for purebred German Shepherds over 15 months of age. Royal Canin rightly points out that German Shepherds can have a fragile digestive system. The breed can have soft stools, digestive upset, and they sometimes bloat – a condition that can be life-threatening and which is thought to be related to food and the way the dogs eat, as well as the deep chests of the dogs, among other things. Royal Canin also points out that German Shepherds have skin that is very alkaline and sensitive. Our information about German Shepherds from breeders and others agrees with most of these statements.
Royal Canin says that their German Shepherd 24 dog food has been formulated to be more easily digestible. They also say it has soluble and insoluble fibers to help the food move through the digestive tract. The company also says the food has omega-3 fatty acid to help the sensitive skin of the German Shepherd. And the food has antioxidants, such as vitamin E, to help dogs like German Shepherds which are susceptible to muscular stress. The kibble in the food is also designed to slow down the rate of chewing and slow how fast the dogs eat.
The first five ingredients in the food are Chicken meal, brown rice, oat groats, chicken fat, and barley. The food is AAFCO approved for maintenance. It contains 343 calories per cup of food. On a dry matter basis the food has 26.7 percent protein, 19.4 percent fat, 4.6 percent fiber, and 40.4 percent carbohydrates. Keep in mind that each Royal Canin formula is formulated for a specific dog breed and is based on research. These percentages might be too high or too low for another breed.
Chicken meal is the first ingredient and it’s a good source of protein for most dogs unless a dog has an allergy to chicken, of course. Chicken typically has 80 percent protein and 20 percent fat. It’s a good source of vitamin B6 and phosphorus, and a very good source of niacin and selenium. Since this is chicken meal, it’s already had most of the moisture removed. Since it’s condensed, it contains several times as much protein per ounce as whole chicken.
The second ingredient is brown rice. Brown rice is mostly carbohydrates – 85 percent carbs, 7 percent fat, and 8 percent protein. It contains selenium and manganese. It’s more nutritious than white rice but also a little harder for some dogs to digest. Brown rice (and white rice) is relatively high on the glycemic index so it gets in the bloodstream fast and provides quick energy. In order to be really beneficial to your dog, it needs to be balanced with other grains that have a lower glycemic value and which are slower to digest.
The third ingredient is oat groats. For those who don’t know, oat groats are the whole oat grain. They include the hull, the cereal germ, the bran, and the endosperm that is usually milled. They are very nutritious but they aren’t easy to chew, so it’s important that they are soaked before cooking. Oat groats provide lots of nutrition and they are digested slowly, so they would work with a high glycemic carb such as brown rice. Oat groats are 76 percent carbs, 6 percent fat, and 18 percent protein.
The fourth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is a named fat source and a good source of fat for dogs. It’s 100 percent fat. It’s a good source of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids.
The fifth ingredient is barley. Barley is 90 percent carbs, 3 percent fat, and 7 percent protein. It’s another cereal grain. It’s a good source of dietary fiber and manganese. Barley is another low glycemic carbohydrate, though it does contain gluten.
Other ingredients in the food to note include rice (which is probably white rice), pork meal (more protein), wheat gluten (protein), dried beet pulp (fiber), fish oil, glucosamine and chondroitin, and the natural preservative/antioxidant rosemary. We don’t find any of these ingredients objectionable with the possible exception of wheat gluten which is an allergen for some dogs. Most of these ingredients appear in lots of dog foods and are very beneficial.
The food also contains soy protein isolate and powdered cellulose. We like these ingredients much less. Soy protein isolate is “a highly refined or purified form of soy protein with a minimum protein content of 90% on a moisture-free basis.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_protein This ingredient has various uses in different foods, among them boosting the protein percentage in pet food. It’s not that unusual for pet food companies to add ingredients to increase the protein percentage in their foods (instead of adding more meat protein). However, the problem with soybeans and some other ingredients is that they can be bad for dogs. Soy can completely mess up your female dog’s hormonal cycle, for example, even if she is spayed. Male dogs can think that she’s in season. If you breed dogs, soy in the food can make your female dog’s cycle unpredictable or prevent conception.
Powdered cellulose in dog food usually refers to plant fibers and/or wood pulp. This is done with the blessing of the FDA. It may not technically be harmful but some dogs have problems eating food that contains cellulose and, frankly, we don’t like it in dog food. It’s in lots of human foods, too, so keep that in mind the next time you see it on a label.
Overall, we like the Royal Canin philosophy of making scientifically nutritious dog food. But there are a few ingredients in this food that we can’t get on board with, even if they are technically not harmful to dogs (or people). Royal Canin German Shepherd 24 is probably a good food for most German Shepherds but we have some issues with it.
Where can you buy Royal Canin?
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You can buy Royal Canin dog foods at many specialty pet food stores and online from pet food retailers. If your dog has a specific health problem, talk to your veterinarian about one of Royal Canin’s veterinary formulas.
i feed my yorkie/chihuahua royal canin adult – why do so many people tell me i should be feeding her a high calorie. high protein, high fat, low carb, grain free food – 3/4’s of the dog food made by man whether its raw, dehydrated, canned or dry, she won’t touch – and these people tell me that royal canin is utterr garbage – so i’ve asked, is the this food going to make her sick, answer no, is she going to die from eating it, answer no – so what’s the problem with it and if it’s that bad why do you sell it?they can’t give an answer or are not able to back it up with concrete evidence of it being a bad food.
i’m not a holistic person especially when ot comes to food – i’m eating what i ate 50 years ago and i’m still kicking so why does my dog have to eat natural or holistic or whatever these fancy foods are called – it’s an animal not a person.
The people that are arguing that it is not a good food are people that believe their pet deserves just as good as a human member of the family. I happen to agree with them. My dog is part of my family, so I choose to feed her as such. I try to eat organic, natural, whole foods myself, so that is what I chose to feed my pet. Call me a hippie, but I’m just not into eating chemicals or raping the Earth’s soil to obtain cheap food. My parents always fed me generic, non-organic food and I got cancer at 19. Can’t prove the cause, but I will do anything I can to prevent a recurrence in myself, and from a diagnosis from a member of my family. Glad you’re still “kickin’ it”, but every individual responds differently to their environment. If all you can afford is cheaper food, then there is no judgement here.
What on earth are you talking about here. There is NOTHING cheap about Royal Canin. I have found it to be one of the most expensive foods offered for pets.
It’s shocking that not many seem bothered what their pets eat or what goes into their food – you will be bothered however when you are getting high vets bills and your pet suffers allergies/illness etc. Makes me so so angry when people say ‘just an animal’ you antiquated dinosaurs shouldn’t own a pet if you do not care about their welfare.
I would like to know if there are any recalls on your Royal Canin Urinary So for small breed dogs?
zero recalls from any royal canin products.
the only recall was in 2007 and that was a volunteer recall when all the USA pet foods were tainted with melamine.
if you’re using Urinary S/O, then you need to stay on it or your pet might have another urinary issue. 🙁
I’m a breeder and get the professional royal canine bags. Since I started feeding my breeding dogs I have had birth defects and some dogs and puppies have horrible diarrhea and puking. I have some dogs that do ok on it other can eat it at all it goes right threw them. When I switched brands on the dogs that can’t eat it they got better. Royal canine offers breeders food for discount prices to try and get others to sign up. I’m really wondering if the birth defects that never happened before I started using the food. And the puking and bloody runs are because of this food. I myself have spend hundreds on test for them to all come back normal. No reason for the diarrhea or puking other than the food. Royal canine does not believe in changing their ingredients but rather offer the exact same ingredient just changing kibble size for each breed. They give breeders and vets discount deals to sell the food.
Recenty my 8 month old TOY YORKIE GOT VERY ILL…JUST AFTER MOVING TO A NEW HOUSE.AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS THE MOVE.JUST BEFORE WE MOVED I OPENED A BAG OF ROYAL CANINE FOOD FOR YORKIES.LAST MONDAY WE TOOK HER TO THE VET,SHE HAD DIAREAH AND SEVERE VOMITING.HE GAVE HER MEDS AND AFTER A FEW DAYS SHE SEEMED TO GET BETTER.YESTERDAY I WENT TO PURCHASE MORE FOOD FOR HER,I WAS TOLD THAT THEY TOOK IT OFF THERE SHELVES BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE COMPAINING OF THE CHANGE IN INGREDIENTS.I CHECKED ON LINE AND I WAS HORRIFIED TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WROTE IN ABOUT HOW ILL THIER PETS BECAME AFTER THE CHANGE IN INGREDIENTS.MY LITTLE GIRL WAS SO SICK AND I’M NOT SURE BUT FROM THE REVIEWS I THINK I’M CHANGING FOOD.
I am going to stop giving my Dachshund the weight loss Royal Canin. I have seen too many bad reports about it. I have stressed other concerns with a Vet and was told if I wanted to believe everything I read on the internet instead of believing them then that was my choice. It certainly is and I will continue to think for myself! I don’t like all the fillers Royal Canin is using that is not related to what dogs eat at all. Horses a lot of grain but I am feeding a dog not a horse!
My Cavalier king Charles has become sick with red bloody diarrhea and some vomiting after being fed royal canine food!!! Took him to vets and had fecal tests and check up,
however, the vet cannot find the problem. He is on a bland diet now of plain boiled rice and chicken. I AM CHANGING FOOD ASAP!!!!!!!@
I DID CHANGE FOOD TO WHOLE EARTH BRAND,ITS BEEN ABOUT 3 DAYS NOW BUT SHE SEEMS TO LIKE IT AND IS EATING VERY WELL ALTHOUGH THE KIBBLES ARE A BIT BIGGER MY GIRL SEEMS TO BE DOING WAY BETTER THAN SHE WAS.
My 4 year old Pekingese is having GI related issues. I stopped feeding her the dry Royal Canine SO for approximately a month. She stopped having diarrhea, loud bowel sounds, and vomiting. I gave her some two days ago, she is having the symptoms starting back. I have emailed Royal Canine to seek advise and have yet to hear back from them. As much aI pay for the food, I expect at least an email back from them trying to help.
I just started feeding my dog that food and she started vomiting non step every hour. I took her to the vet (200.00 later) and they gave her shots and put her on the chicken and rice prescription food. I had her on that for a week and slowly started introducing her back to the Urinary S/O and she has started throwing up again! This food that is supposed to be helping my dog is making her sick!
This product has made our pet very very sick. Severe vomiting every time he eats this brand. Beware!
My poodle has IBD and has been fed only the Potato Rabbit Dry and canned Royal Canin. Has anyone been feeding this food. He’s been on it for 4 months.
I have a mini schnauzer 10 years old and he was put on the canned royal canine due to his reoccurring bladder stones… he has been on it for about a year…. and no stones and he seems good…. just wanting to make sure it’s a good healthy food…. he eats the Mature Consult.
I have a male mini schnauzer that is 12 years old. We discovered bladder stones within the last 2 years. We have tried Hills SD diet twice for 1 month each time and there was no effect on the bladder stones. Now I am going to be giving him the Royal Canin SO canned food and see how he does on that. I was informed by the vets that some bladder stones are dis-solvable and some are not (struvite vs. calcium vs. ?) At this point, after trying the SD food twice with a 6 month period in between and x-rays indicating no change in the the stones, it looks like he has the non-dis-solvable. Now that he is 12, with the stones, I want to feed him something that will be conducive to his condition and as a maintenance diet.
If ur dog having stone problem plz plz take him to some homeopathic vet n stop giving him dry food major cause of stone problem. There is no cure of stone in alopathic medicine by God Almighty plz try homeopathic if correct med is given it ll done miracle
I’m scard now I always thought it was the best ?.I have a very alergic yorkie/poodle.what now,are all the roomers true.
I too have paid a lot more for Royal Canine after the Chinese issue. I had 4 yorkie and s\a started having vomiting/diarrhea issues that got quite severe. I followed the vets recommendations & gave the med only to have it return to varying degrees on multiple dogs. My oldest was lethargic, irritable, and acting old beyond his years. My daughter’s
‘ yorkie who is also fed RC is having similar issues. I HAVE TAKEN THEN OFF RC and no more vomiting or diarhea and my oldest dog is active and energetic again. Anyone knows where I can get this food tested?
By the way one of the dogs died from the diarrhea and vomiting thanksgiving
I am sorry to see these negative comments. However, I must say that our little dog and we have been very happy with the Royal Canin food. A vet recommended it for our rescue dog (probably Havanese or like mix). He has done _very well_ and from the moment of rescue to now, just short of 3 months, he has gained 1 pound and is perfect weight and health according to the vet who just saw him. The ONLY time his stool has not looked 100% normal is when he has eaten something other than his age-appropriate and correct portion RC adult small-dog food. He is healthy and energetic just as a young adult dog should be.
P.S. I didn’t realize until after I submitted that my review was on the German Shepherd formula. My comments are for the Mini Adult formula.
My Chinese Crested has eaten Royal Canin Chahuahua for over a year. It has now started her vomiting and not want to eat. I’m moving her to Fromm.
i have just ordered pug puppy royal canine for my 9 week old pug but then i read the reviews now i am pannicking will it be alright? thought i was doing the right thing now i dont know what to do – what does anyone think please help!
I would NOT feed my dog that food. I am taking this food back after my dog got VERY sick. I can’t believe they still have this food on the shelf.
My Schnauzer has been on RC since he was a pup. I’ve had no issues and in fact the vet has never said anything about his weight or health. Teeth are very clean and we haven’t done a teeth cleaning yet just your typical greenies and tooth brushing. If your dog is doing fine on the food don’t change it unless you’re looking for something different. If they’re doing bad on it then of course look for something that works. We have friends that have Yorkshires on RC and they are fine. Not all dogs are the same just as not all humans. Their system may react to it different. Calm down and do some research, visit your VET and find out what your best options are.
Sometimes I think people “jump on the bandwagon” without facts. I haven’t read a single one that deals with fact or can demonstrate an coalition between the illness and the food. I don’t care what we eat….we ALL get sick or the runs on occasion. Sometimes it’s related to what we eat but often it’s not. Give me concrete evidence that there is NOTHING else going on and I may jump on the band wagon, too. But to immediately conclude its a pet food is wrong and irresponsible to the company AND to your pet!
There are thousands of undiagnosed conditions and diseases in humans AND in pets. Have a blood panel done, have a lactose, allergy or any other test(s) done. But I find most who post to these sites go crazy and make uninformed decisions based on something someone else posted.
Unless you’re willing to spend the Bucks testing everything you can……realize dogs & cats, like humans, get ill from time to time and it may be far further from the “food” they eat than most realize.
A recall back 8 yrs ago is pretty darn good….my opinion.
My maltese/poodle mix is a senior dog approximately 15 years old. I got her 2 1/2 years ago from a rescue in Minnesota, told that I may only have her a year. She has mammary cancer, a heart murmur, cataracts in both eyes with an ulcer in one, and just had to have her remaining teeth pulled. You wouldn’t know it to look at her, and I have been feeding her RC Mature Consult, small breed since I adopted her 10/2012. Her stools are good, she maintains her girlie figure staying in between 11 and 12 pounds, and has the energy level of a 5-8 year old dog. I do believe that the Mature Consult has been very good for her, and tell everybody that asks what I feed her that I’m a Royal Canin believer. I agree with Andrew, not all dogs are the same. One may not have a problem, and the next one might. I would try something else if she starts to have a problem with the food, but I still wouldn’t trash it, it’s done very well for her.
I have two mini dachshund puppies. I was given a bag of Royal Canin from the breeder to bring home. I started them on another food and they stopped eating it. I had to coax them by putting that kibble in my hand. I remembered the Royal Canin and started to feed them the RC puppy kibble. They absolutely love it! I have not observed any problems at all. They are frisky, trim, have soft coats. I’m relieved I have food that they eagerly eat. They have been eating Royal Canin for about two months. So far, so good
Lab was Doing OK on royal canin. A few months ago he started getting severely I’ll after eating it. It was definitely the food. Changed to another brand and he is ok. He would not even eat royal canin after a while, poison to him
My 5 year old schnauzer mix has been on RC SO for about 3 years for bladder stones. It seemed to be working well until the last bag I just opened. She’s now getting hives and threw up tonight. I’m convinced something has changed in the formula. I will be taking her to the vet to talk options for other food because after this week of hives and now vomiting I will not continue RC SO. If someone has any info on if they changed formulas I would love to know.
I bought a royal canin for my yorkshire, At first she doesn’t want to eat it even if i force it to her mouth. Later, when she became hungry she ate it already
You force fed it to her????? She obviously did not even like the smell of it. and then she only had the option of either eat it or starve apparently. I feel SO SORRY for the animals who end up with owners who seem to think they have to have a pet when they so clearly don’t want to be bothered. I have over heard people say things like “she’ll eat it if she gets hungry enough” Poor dog
First let me say that my dog has been on Royal Canin for about 4 years. She loved the food. Her coat is beautiful and there was no problem with her bowels. Opened up a new bag of Yorkshire Royal Canin and that is when her problems started. Lethargic, irritable, would not eat or drink and became very dehydrated. Took her to the vet right away and she was re-hydrated, brought her home and fed her boiled chicken and rice, I got her feeling better so later during the day fed her the dry Yorkshire Royal Canin. In the morning she was once again sick. Took her back to the vet and had to leave her for IV re-hydration. I have checked several web sites and people are saying that it is also making their dogs sick. Since taking her completely off of this food she has improved. We have done blood and other lab work and the vet cannot find out what made her sick. The vet cannot say that it is the food but no other reason has been found for this illness. I contacted Royal Canin who said there has been no recall and they asked for the information on the bag, and said they would get back with me once they report this to their Quality and Control team. I spoke with the people at PetSmart and they also said that there has been no overall recall, but dog food companies have asked that certain batches be taken from their shelves. She wouldn’t say which companies. For anyone else having problems and think it is the dog food, please call the company and inform them.
I have 2 yorkies that are 7 years old. I have had them since they were 12 weeks old. I have never used anything except Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier 28. The last bag I purchased, i noticed that the name had been changed from Yorkshire Terrier 28 to Yorkshire Terrier Adult. They have started throwing up and bloody stools. My wife thinks that the ingredients may have been changed along with the name. Have not been to the vet yet. ANY ADVICE?
I switched from Orijen to raw food for my Doxies. All of them love the raw food diet and I’ve been able to keep them all at healthy weights. I also supplement (treats) with fruits and veggies. I am happily awaiting the arrival of another pup this spring. However the Breeder/Vet does not approve of the raw food diet. Any thoughts on this subject??
What food would you recommend for a senior Great Pyrennes?
We actually just wrote about Great Pyrennes. Here’s the full recap that includes our recommendation for senior dogs!
Interesting thread. I’ve fed Royal Canine for many years to my Rhodesian Ridgebacks. My current boy came Dow with stage 5 either aleukemic leukemia or lymphoma at age 9 1/2. Against the odds , went for several mo this of chemo. He’s now 10 years 2months , in clinical remission, looks great. Kept on RC all the way through though now it’s the renal support s variety.
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I’m very concerned my little chihuahua is 2 and a half she was on puppy development exclusive from my vet since 8 weeks then at 1 years old onto royal canine exclusive adult for small dogs from my vet …it’s all she gets …but people are going on its been bought by Mars years ago and it’s really bad food ..imi very very concerned …I love my baby girl and this is important to me she was always healthy looks healthy coat beautiful but as of this week her liver emsyme was elevated slightly to 327……..I’m very upset although the rest her blood work and other blood on her liver were perfect ….can I have some proof and facts on this food ..I only use the exclusive from my vet ????thank you
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I am so torn! My 8 year old standard schnauzer loves to eat but needs to lose weight. He recently started having issues with his neck and we discovered he has 2 slipped/bulging disks. Luckily, no surgery needed for now. I have been feeding him Science Diet Healthy weight for over a year now but he has not lost weight. The vet recommended Royal Canin Satiety for him, but the ingredients look awful. I’ve talked to a few people who have used RC for weight loss and they had nothing but great things to say.
Switched from Purina to Royal 8plus. Great food for my 8yr Yellow Lab. The problem is I can not get any food for over a week. They keep saying it is in stock but it never ships. I am very upset. My Vet has tried for over a week but never is shipped. I spoke with Royal Canine with not much help!
I would like to see a review on the hepatic dry dog food for my shitzu
Royal Canin with rosemary added as a preservative can cause seizures in dogs. My baby is dying because of this……please put a disclaimer on your food and warn of rosemary
Royal Canin includes rosemary which can cause seizures in dogs, mine is almost dying…..do not feed this to your pet
NEW PACKAGE/FORMULA makes pets very ill!! BEWARE!!! IF your pet is ill to after feeding from the new back do some research